Board index » kids » Tweens

2005-10-02 12:47:36 AM
Okay, here's the scenario.
Friday, DD10 (fifth grade) comes home in tears describing in detail how
mean her new friend is being is being toward her. We discussed it in
depth, I listened and asked if she'd like some suggestions. She did
want some and I offered her a few bits of my "wisdom".
I explained to her that although I'm not really a big fan of Dr. Phil,
that he, just like most people on the planet, have some wisdom worth
listening to. I explained to her about how we teach people how to
treat us. If we accept being treated like we're garbage, then that is
how we will be treated. Also, if we treat others like they are
garbage, we will get the same treatment.
I always ask her what role she has played in the interaction of OF
COURSE she claims to be innocent (I take it with a HUGE grain of salt."
I convinced her to take a shower, wash her hair and that'd we'd
celebrate her half day off and go out to lunch. We had a lovely time,
good food and did a bit of shopping. Her friend's name came up a few
times and she got very uptight and said that she just doesn't want to
ever be friends with her again. We have lived this drama for about the
last 3 years, starting in about 3rd grade...GIRLS, recess and the crap
that goes on is simply maddening.
Okay, so that was yesterday and I thought we sort of nipped it in the
bud, all was well with the world and she came to terms with the fact
that she was going to contact friend and tell her that if she wants to
remain friends with her, then she needs to stop being mean, talking
behind her back and calling her a bitch behind her back. My daughter
also was going to tell her that if something is bothering her, to talk
to her and hopefully they can work out whatever it is that is wrong.
She does have one friend who she does this with and I'm trying to
encourage her to establish this with her other friends.
So, DD instant messages this girl this am to chat with her about this
stuff and the girl ends up denying that she called her a bitch and
everything is now great, fine, wonderful according to my daughter. The
friend is asking my daughter to come over tonight, go to the movies or
dinner and sleep over. I have to work today and into the early evening
and my husband is going to be with daughter after she returns from a
party. They were going to spend the evening together and go out to
dinner.
My daughter told me about the possible plans for tonight and I said,
"I"m not exactly embracing the idea of you spending the night with a
girl who you were shedding tears over yesterday." She said, "oh, now
she needs to come here, her dad is on a fishing trip, her mom is going
to a party and her sister won't be home so she has no where to go." At
that time, my head was getting dizzy with a bit of overload of issues
going on at the same time.
Several phone calls later between the girls and an invite for NEXT
FRIDAY NIGHT SLEEPOVER I told my daughter to come in here for a chat.
I told her that I cannot embrace this girl coming over, plans were made
with her dad for this evening, finding a place for your friend (who
made you cry) is not our responsibility and making plans for next
Friday night is not going to happen today. I'm uncomfortable inviting
her or you going there given how many times you have complained about
how mean she is to you. It's going to take some time to see that
things between you are okay before spending whole nights together.
Part of me feels like I'm trying to control the situation too much and
that I should just let her go or have her here and let the games begin
and she'll learn on her own. The other part of me feels that I'm
teaching my daughter a lesson about how it's important to choose your
friends and to spend time with people who are kind and don't stab you
in the back.
Since you are such an HONEST group, lay it on me. I'd love some input
from any of you who have or are going through this tumultuous period in
their tween daughter's lives. I am finding it very challening to stay
uninvolved but also involved. I'm trying very hard to clarify what I'm
tring to teach her and how to do it gently. I'm also working on making
sure that I'm not bringing in any of my personal issues that are
unresolved from my teen years (a very common problem from everything
that I have read-whatever you didn't solve as a teen, it will haunt you
while your teens go through it.)
Anyhow, please be gentle with me, I'm feeling quite vulnerable right
now- started a new job that is overloading me with cases while trying
to be a good mom. And the little angel just walked in here, layed down
on my bed and is trying to make small talk so I'll chat with her.
Thanks :-)
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MsLiz wrote:
if I were your daughter, I'd feel between a rock and a hard
place. You said this girl wasn't treating her well. Then
you encouraged her to make up with this girl. Your daughter
tried to do that, and an overnight was arranged (without
consulting you first) as part of that making up. Then
you were back with the girl isn't treating her well enough
to stay overnight. I imagine your daughter's head is
spinning a bit.
Now, in terms of the overnight, I'd have an issue
with my child inviting someone overnight without clearing
it with me first, not so much because I'd need to approve
or disapprove the friendship, but because how else would
she know if it were *possible* for us to play host that
night? And it sounds like you do have a conflict.
I probably wouldn't have disallowed the sleepover
due to the girl's behavior. I would have probably welcomed
the opportunity to observe the interaction between the
girls. However, I would not have allowed a sleepover
that wasn't cleared with the family schedule and that
conflicted with current plans. I would have scheduled
the next Friday, unless there were some pending plans
I couldn't resolve immediately. I don't see why the
next week couldn't get scheduled.
I don't think tween girl relationships are such
that it would be inappropriate to go from being upset
with one another to having a sleepover within 24 hours.
Those things can be pretty volatile. They need to work
towards less of a roller coaster ride, but I don't think
it's going to happen overnight.
Best wishes,
Ericka
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MsLiz wrote:
innocent, right? So, what if *she's* the one who's been unkind and
stabbing her friend in the back? I guess that would be my caution.
Otherwise, I'd let your DD lead on this one. If the IM chat reconciled
the two and now they are warm enough to want a sleepover, then so be
it. See what happens. It could be that your DD is a doormat and will
only get hurt again. Or, it could be that your DD realized she was also
not so innocent, in which case, forgiving her friend and being merciful
shows she is attempting to be a better friend, so her friend will treat
her better.
It's really hard to say! But I'd probably allow the next friday
sleepover. Who knows.... a lot could happen in a week and it could fall
apart last minute anyway. Or not.
Usually when I stand back and let the kids learn their own friendship
lessons, it's worked. For example, last year DD12 initially befriended
these three girls who were in the popular clique. I didn't like any of
them, to tell the truth: they were very catty and materialistic and
snobby. But DD12 was so much wanting to fit in and be popular, so I
endured a few playdates and mall shopping trips and countless snotty
preteen comments, and shut my mouth.
About midway through the year, DD12 just up and decided she didn't much
enjoy this group of girls. They are still on friendly terms at school;
she just doesn't choose to get together with them outside of school.
Instead, she found two other girls who she much preferred, even if they
weren't in the popular clique.
Initially, the popular girls told DD12 she "couldn't" be friends with
these two girls, because they weren't "cool," or whatever they call it
these days. DD12 mulled this over awhile, and decided she didn't care
what they thought - she liked these girls.
She then spent the rest of the school year hanging out pretty much
exclusively with them. And these two girls are really very nice kids
and are good friends to DD12.
And, do you like this friend of your DD's? Is she a nice kid? Does she
remind you of anyone?
My DD11 has one friend that I am hot and cold about. She reminds me too
much of one of my friends when I was that age, who tended to be a
troublemaker with problems and issues well beyond my capacity, as a
young teen, to handle. In this case, I've been very relieved that my DD
seems to want me to step in and say no to playdates, to help her limit
her time with this friend.
really taking off. She's on her cell every night chatting away with
this or that girlfriend. This is a big change from last year. She had a
sleepover with a new friend last night. Nice kid, from what I could
tell, although they stayed up too late and got up before we did and
made a pot of coffee... which they drank, just between the two of them,
yikes. I do let my DD have coffee but in very VERY small amounts - no
more than 1/2 glass with 1/2 milk, and then only once a week or so.
While we were still asleep, they drank the ENTIRE pot between the two
of them!!!
And then today she's been on the phone searching for a playdate for
tomorrow, I think she called about 5 girls who's names are not familiar
to me. They moved her into another group this year, and she's
apparently making new friends pretty rapidly. I am relieved - it's
tough when you start out the new year not knowing anyone. I feared
she'd be lonely this year - apparently not!
DD11 meanwhile has been lucky - she got into the group that includes
all of her closest friends. So she hasn't had to meet anyone new or
make any new friends, since the same old faces are in all her classes
this year.
jen
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kids

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
communicate with her how she expects to be treated...whether it means
them ending the friendship or working on treating each other
respectfully.
Your daughter
word or alluded to "MAKING UP". Teaching her that if she accepts
crappy treatment from people, they will continue it. I don't want a
call in the middle of the night with her crying, asking me to pick her
up. I want to see a bit of history of the two girls getting along and
then being comfortable enough to say, sure, try a sleep over.
Come over, sleep over, go out to dinner, maybe we'll go to a corn maize
or shopping or to see a movie. Good god, then she said,,,,,,,oh my
parents won't be home, I need a place to stay can I come to your house
and maybe sleep over! I don't *think* my daughter was the inititator
in this and I have seen this young girl do this before. In fact, just
the fact that she said...hey, next Friday, come home from school with
me and sleep over. Puleeze...it's Saturday right now, that's 6 days
away. Between then and now they might be enemies or best friends :-)
the time to observe (and Dad is somewhat oblivious to this stuff and DD
doesn't go to him with these types of problems).
However, I would not have allowed a sleepover
give it some space, wait and see and then maybe by the end of next
week, an overnight will be appropriate. And thanks for the clarity on
the clearance issues. I would not every go ahead without talking to a
parent at any rate...but her friend does tend to be all over the board.

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
communicate with her how she expects to be treated...whether it means
them ending the friendship or working on treating each other
respectfully.
Your daughter
word or alluded to "MAKING UP". Teaching her that if she accepts
crappy treatment from people, they will continue it. I don't want a
call in the middle of the night with her crying, asking me to pick her
up. I want to see a bit of history of the two girls getting along and
then being comfortable enough to say, sure, try a sleep over.
Come over, sleep over, go out to dinner, maybe we'll go to a corn maize
or shopping or to see a movie. Good god, then she said,,,,,,,oh my
parents won't be home, I need a place to stay can I come to your house
and maybe sleep over! I don't *think* my daughter was the inititator
in this and I have seen this young girl do this before. In fact, just
the fact that she said...hey, next Friday, come home from school with
me and sleep over. Puleeze...it's Saturday right now, that's 6 days
away. Between then and now they might be enemies or best friends :-)
the time to observe (and Dad is somewhat oblivious to this stuff and DD
doesn't go to him with these types of problems).
However, I would not have allowed a sleepover
give it some space, wait and see and then maybe by the end of next
week, an overnight will be appropriate. And thanks for the clarity on
the clearance issues. I would not every go ahead without talking to a
parent at any rate...but her friend does tend to be all over the board.

shinypenny wrote:
continue doing so.
of kid but when it comes to being friends with whom she thinks are the
popular kids (god I hate this stuff!!!) she sort of becomes mush.
likes and has *dropped* plans with dd to be with the other girl. I
constantly suggest to my daughter that making new friends is a good
thing...you never know when you will be dumped for someone else :-)
stuff is starting earlier and earlier. I remember it happening in Jr.
High (7th grade) when I was growing up .
with a nice group of friends. However, certainly not without angst!!!
course they were bored after making cookies so I suggested going
outside and letting off some steam. They went up the hill to the park
and met with some of Kylie's friends and her friend, ended up walking
away from dd and ignored dd until it was time for them to come home.
They got home and I made dinner and the friend did not say one word
during dinner, had no manners like please and thank you or bringing
dish to sink (most of her friends do- we invite lots of kids over for
dinner due to dd not having any sibs at home I try to do it as often as
possible)
She doesn't remind me of anyone but according to dd, she is very
spoiled and gets whatever she wants by whining. HAHA, so does my
daughter and I asked her if it reminded her of anyone she knows. "Mom,
I know I whine, but I swear, I learned from "friend" that I will never
do it again." Yeah right!
getting one side of the story. But I did see a cheerful kid making
cookies and playing around and being fun and then returning to the
house in an entirely quiet unfriendly mood. My daughter was trying to
make conversation and she'd answer in one word sentences.
school district, my goal is for us to sell our house next summer and
move to one of two districts that are superior. One is the one where
my son went to high school. She will be starting school literally
knowing no one, not even bumping into a few she knows so I do feel for
her. But she's excited to move (most days) knowing that she'll get a
new room.

On 1 Oct 2005 09:47:36 -0700, "MsLiz" <judgedl@gmail.com>wrote:
YOu have given her advise. Let her take the lead from them on.
I need to tell you that I dont know how many times this will happen
again during the tween years....The, I never want to see so and so
again, and the next day...oh so and so and I are going to the
mall.That person may well ned up being her best friend.
This also happens regularly with similar age siblings.
I do agree that if you have family plans you may want to change the
date and time of the overnight.
-

MsLiz wrote:
was that your daughter believes the other girl is now in the
mode of treating her well. With your adult perspective, you
are somewhat skeptical of how genuine that is, but if your
daughter perceives it as genuine, then she almost has to
go through that process of playing it out and finding out
it's not genuine for herself.
telling your daughter to make up, but you were encouraging
her to communicate, and the result of that communication
was that your daughter now believes all is well between
the two of them. I don't know whether that's really true
or not. Maybe there was a simple miscommunication that
got straightened out, or maybe the other girl is playing
your daughter. But your daughter seems to *believe* that
all is well. So, you can either substitute your judgement
for hers or let this thing play out. Given that the stakes
are relatively low, I'd be inclined to let things play out.
not uncommon. When it comes to planning stuff like this,
our rule is that the kids can talk amongst themselves and
decide what they *want* to do, but no plans get made until
parent talks to parent. That cuts down on a lot of stuff.
thing is going to be a long-term maturation process. Kids
have to learn over time about making commitments and sticking
through thick and thin and having integrity and all that sort
of stuff. They have little ability to predict how their
friends will react to situations, or how they will feel about
things. So, they tumble willy nilly from friends to enemies
and happy to frustrated to angry. It's having the life
experiences over time that helps them figure out that Jane
is just playing them, or Sue is a true friend, or whatever.
kids and just make a rule that nothing goes on the calendar
officially until there's been a parent-to-parent discussion.
Best wishes,
Ericka
-

"MsLiz" <judgedl@gmail.com>wrote in message
last two years she had a problem with a friend. The girl was being mean to
DD1 and teasing her. Well things did a flip and the girl and DD1 befriended
each other. They had a fight, made up and same thing DD1 and the girl wanted
to spend the night with each other. Well I felt the same way as you. I
wasn't ready to accept the friend because she brought DD1 to tears. However,
I stayed out of it. I did; however, have the girl spend the night at our
house so I could keep an eye on her. My philosophy has been to keep my
friends close and my enemies closer so I have passed this along to DD1. I
warned her to not get to close and that things could change and be on her
gaurd. They were friends for a while and now the friendship is on a cooler
basis, but they are friendly to each other. I say stay out of the friendship
wars because there are going to be too many for you to get involved with.
It's also a good lesson for the kids to learn how to get along and use their
own judgement.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
-

MsLiz wrote:
mush?
I was saying, she was aiming at the popular kids and wanting to be
accepted by them. She would sit by the phone waiting for them to call
her, and would get disappointed when they'd make promises to do so
during the week, but then didn't call when the weekend arrived. Or
she'd call them, make plans, then then last minute get dropped because
a "better offer" came along.
This one particular girl really strung my DD along one weekend. It was
so obvious. DD got her hopes up really high, the girl agreed to come
over, then never did. DD called and called, turning down other
playdates, but kept getting the answering machine. Finally, the mother
called back when it was too late for a playdate, and made some really
lame, transparent excuse for her DD. I got on the phone and talked to
the mom, and I discerned that this kid had gotten a better offer from
another kid, and didn't have the decency to call my DD back and be
honest. Instead, she just blew her off entirely. The mom felt really
bad about it.
It was heart wrenching to watch my DD go through this. Like you, I
gently suggested she reach out to other kids who were more reliable and
who obviously were interested in playdates with her, instead of pinning
all her hopes on these fickle popular girls who didn't have the decency
to break a date themselves, and instead sent their mom calling to make
their excuses.
The mom must've had a stern talking to her kid, because the next
available weekend, DD was invited over for a slumber party. I bit my
tongue and let her go. DD was so excited - she didn't sense, as I
sensed, that this was the child's punishment for being so careless with
my DD's feelings.
It was shortly after that slumber party that DD lost all interest in
this kid, thank goodness. She somehow put two and two together all on
her own. She started making plans with other kids who weren't so fickle
and cruel.
But there's more to the story! Just this weekend, the cruel popular
girl called my DD for a playdate. It's been a year since they've gotten
together outside of school. She may actually come over here today. But
DD had already made plans to have her other friends over, too, so DD
did not choose one over the other and included them all.
She tells me she figures people can change, and that she thinks this
girl has changed for the better, over this past year. So she's
maintained a policy of being friendly, and she treats the girl friendly
and would never snub her in the way she snubbed DD last year.
jen
-

In article <1128264998.796454.221270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, shinypenny
says...
motivated by trying to stay in with other girls in her group, and that has since
changed.
Ya never know.. if she's willing to show and be among your dd's current friends,
too, she's worth a chance.
Banty (I think adolscence is created to make us have something to look back to,
in our middle age, and be glad we're at our present age)
-

Banty wrote:
open, because you never know. People can change, and preteens change a
lot. They're testing out the social waters and they learn fast from
their peers.... much more so than listening to their parents!!!
(although parents can be great role models).
Not sure what the deal is - it's all been a flurry of phone calls back
and forth between four girls trying to negotiate a plan for the day at
one house or the other. The plans have changed every few seconds this
morning.
Ultimately, they decided to go to DD12's newest best friend's house,
instead of here. I say "newest" best friend because this new friendship
developed in the last few weeks, since school started.
This kid slept over here Friday night, she seems nice enough but boy
can this kid talk a blue streak. It's exhausting listening to her. But
she's cute and her enthusiasm is charming and contagious, so I can see
why DD12 is attracted to her. But poor DF was going crazy with all the
estrogen flying about the house.
She's also the "ring leader" type, and in love with her cell phone. I
lost count how many times she called DD this weekend - it seemed like
every 5 minutes!!!
So DD is going over her house, and DD's other best friend (from last
year) is coming too. The popular girl changed her mind or something or
I don't know, maybe ring-leader girl discouraged her from coming. It's
all too hard to follow... sigh...
jen
-

In article <1128273585.474350.75330@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, shinypenny
says...
All your fault ;-)
Kidding of course. Though even 12 year old boys can talk a blue streak.
This stuff would drive me crazy.
Banty
-

On 1 Oct 2005 10:43:15 -0700, "MsLiz" <judgedl@gmail.com>wrote:
expcted, or even hoped? They made a sleepover arrangement (without
asking you first, the only problem I see here)
Why not let your daughter decide if the relationship is good enouogh
for an overnight
sleepover. Lst minute invites do not make me happy although they are
occasionally accepted. Would you prefer if she called Thursday for
Firday??
-

On 2 Oct 2005 10:36:35 -0700, Banty <Banty_member@newsguy.com>wrote:
when he was that age.
activities <G>
Nan
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Catherine Woodgold wrote:
wisdom in all of your responses. Thank you so much for taking the time
to detail various options. You stated everything so eloquently, only a
fool would be offended!!!
Hugs to you :-)

In article <st90k1lr7r27oohambc1ocbdmf5f9bqpkj@4ax.com>, Nan says...
now!
Banty
-

On 2 Oct 2005 11:58:46 -0700, Banty <Banty_member@newsguy.com>wrote:
personal hygiene.
Nan, phewwwy!
-

Banty wrote:
for another marathon playdate tomorrow night through Tuesday (which is
a school holiday here).
After consultation with me, DD accepted, but she seemed a little
reticent to me. After dinner tonight we talked, and it turns out she
does think her newest best friend is a little, um, too chatty.
I told her she didn't have to go on the playdate; if she wanted, I
could make an excuse for her. But she said that she would go, and that
"I'm always like this with new friends... I want to spend every minute
with them, then I overdose and back off to reasonable levels. And this
friend I will probably conclude I can only take in small doses!!"
Yep, that's my DD. I do trust her to make good choices all on her own,
without my interference. She has a good head on her shoulders, and good
judgement of people. She's sized this girl up correctly - sweet, but a
little too cloying with all her incessant phone calls and constant need
for twinship with DD. She is a "high-maintanence" friend.
Meanwhile, DF and I were chatting (away from little ears) about the
tween-girl friendship thing. He is exhausted and his head is spinning.
Hee hee. I told him this is all par for the course, and I remember it
well when I was that age. It's all practice, these
tween-girl-relationships. All practice for relationships with boys! It
is like they get crushes and infatuations and are falling in love with
each other. Most infatuations lose steam really quickly. Only a few
survive past this intense early stage!!
jen
-

In article <2pl0k1d1fb81k9ck9fvviesfn4bvj9j2s0@4ax.com>, Nan says...
- B
-

In article <dhr5b10gi2@drn.newsguy.com>,
Banty <Banty_member@newsguy.com>wrote:
interested in romance.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
-